[00:00:00] Karlee: Welcome to Leave Room for the Magic, a podcast that invites you to embrace the wonder, beauty, and messiness woven into the fabric of everyday life. In this show, we'll bridge the gap between the practical and the spiritual, providing inspiration, tips, and tools from our featured guests. So without further ado, Let's go make some magic.

Hi, my loves. It is truly my pleasure to introduce for you our guest for today. Tiana Pollari. Tiana is a certified mindset coach with a background in holistic nutrition and movement who works with women who want to shift from scarcity and playing it small to thriving and feeling confident. We have an incredible conversation lined up for you.

I know you have heard a lot of guests talk about their transition from a corporate to entrepreneurship, but when Tiana shared her story with me, I knew it was one that you had to hear for yourself. So we'll be chatting about that today. We will also be diving into the distinctions between different therapeutic work, including traditional therapies, somatic work and coaching.

What are they? And how might you use them at different times and in different situations in your life? And lastly, we bonded over some shared stories we had that we'll be sharing some of the pitfalls and red flags to look out for when you're navigating the coaching and healing place because just like any industry, there's a lot of good in it.

But there is some toxic stuff that can pop up when we're at least expecting it. So both of us didn't feel like it gets discussed enough. And we're looking forward to having that conversation with you today. So Tiana, it's such a pleasure to have you on the show. I'm so excited for you to be here.

[00:01:37] Tiana: I am so excited to continue our conversation.

So I'm very excited to be here.

[00:01:41] Karlee: Ah, thrilled about it. Yeah. I was buzzing after our pre interview. So I'm boiling that energy over to today.

[00:01:50] Tiana: Yes, I was after our pre interview was like, wow, I never expected it to dovetail quite like it did. Yeah. We went in thinking, okay, like this is what we're going to talk about.

And then it just went into a completely different direction. But that's just the beauty of it.

[00:02:04] Karlee: Yeah, that's the magic. And we'll keep that magic going for our conversation today. Before we dive into it all, as I like to start every episode, would you please share your intention for the conversation today with our guests?

[00:02:17] Tiana: My intention is just to give voice to women who feel that maybe their voice doesn't matter or their presence doesn't matter and just give them permission to take up space and to be heard and to be seen and that it's okay for all of that.

[00:02:38] Karlee: I love that. I love that. To take up space, to be seen, to be heard. I love that. Wonderful.

So my intention today is to have fun with the conversation and explore different perspectives around healing in the coaching world to give people a better tool to navigate it all. And you know, be vulnerable in our shared stories that hopefully can help somebody else who's going through it and trying to navigate their own journey as well.

Wonderful. So Tiana, we're going to rewind to pre pandemic times because we're going to start off with your journey from corporate into entrepreneurship. And you weren't just working any corporate job. In your words, you were working a nice, cushy government job.

Please take us back to that time in your life. And what was that first spark of desire for something different? And how did that transition unfold from that first spark for you?

[00:03:33] Tiana: Yeah. Yeah. I think that always surprises people because they don't realize that. I mean, there's corporate jobs and then there's like a government job and so they don't realize there's a distinction between the two.

And I'd been working at the government, I think by the time I left, it was close to 15 years, and I was working and then had the opportunity to get a part time job at Lululemon. And I was like, okay, cool. Like extra money. And Lululemon as a culture is really big on goal setting, and that was probably the first time I had exposure to, what do you want to do for the next three months?

Where do you see yourself in a year? And I was like, oh, I'd never thought about my life like that. I think I was like 26 at the time. And I was like, oh, okay. And then one of the things I had put down was like, I wanted to be a spin instructor. And I was like, okay, I could be a cool goal to work towards, and then, did the certification.

And then as a result started teaching spin classes that, then dovetailed into teaching fitness classes and then doing personal training on the side. And so I was working the nine to five and teaching either before work or after work teaching on weekends. So, I was going six, seven days straight for years.

Because it was, you're working that side hustle outside of the main hustle. And yeah, so I was doing that for so long and then went back to school and then studied holistic nutrition again all while still working, government nine to five to kind of further the side hustle.

[00:05:11] Karlee: Amazing. Amazing. And when you were doing it as a side hustle, did you envision that you wanted to make it full time or was it just kind of, as you were going through it, just something you were passionate about, so you kept it on the side. What were your thoughts at the time?

[00:05:27] Tiana: My thoughts at the time were it was great grocery money, and I was like, this is fun, I'm like getting half of a workout in and getting to boss people around. Like this is cool, and doing it for so long, and then the more fun it became, it never felt like a job and so people will always say, like, when you enjoy what you do, it'll never feel like work and teaching never ever felt like work.

It just felt like fun and so the more fun I was having, I was like, it would be fun to do this all the time. Like I had those thoughts and I remember thinking, but like, how could I ever, like, I can't give up this job. Like, how could I ever do this full time and still supplement this income? And it was always like a little pipe dream, like way, way, way filed back in my head.

And yeah. I remember one of my friends at the time was living in New York and we were sitting on her stoop and she's like, you need to quit. And she was just saying it like it was just like easy. Like, I'll just go in on Monday and hand in my two weeks notice. And I remember being like, I can't, I can't, it's not that easy.

I can't, I can't, I can't. And she's like, yeah, like you can just do it. And I'm like, No, actually, I can't. And there was no catalyst to do so and there was no real massive incentive. So that desire just really like bubbles below the surface. And then, as the years went on, and don't get me wrong, I was probably one of the few people who loved their government job or just loved their full time job because it was very cool.

I worked with amazing people. But I also knew that I was meant for more and then so as much as I tried to push it down, then it started to really come to the surface where I was like... I don't know how, but what if I could do this? So it shifted from the I can't, I can't, but what if...? What would it look like?

Could I like, what? And it's just the two words. What if?

[00:07:32] Karlee: I love that. Yeah. It just cracks the door open? Doesn't it?

[00:07:38] Tiana: Yeah. And so when the opportunity presented itself to leave, and I tell people, I'm like, I packaged myself out. They were like, do you want to take this package? I was like, absolutely, sign me up. Before I go, I talked to a few people about it just to make sure, okay. Am I, like, is this, like, gonna be the biggest jump of my life?

And everyone's like, do it. You're young, do it. And I'm like, okay. And and then I did it, and I had a really good runway. And then I...

It was like, okay, we're doing this. And then I left and then COVID happened.

[00:08:15] Karlee: Which as we all know, the fitness industry probably got hit some of the hardest and not the hardest, but...

[00:08:21] Tiana: Absolutely. And I just want to say COVID happened three months into… I'm going to live my best entrepreneurial life. And then the universe said, the F#*! you are!

[00:08:36] Karlee: In terms of that transition, because I mean, number one, stepping out to be an entrepreneur in general at that time, let alone the fitness industry when everything's physically closed, I mean, what ran through your head as you were going through that time and deciding, okay, do I continue on this path? Or, did you have moments of, do I retreat? Go find this job again, or go try and get my job back.

[00:09:05] Tiana: Absolutely. I remember being like, I think I made a mistake. Like, I made the wrong decision. And... I was one of the lucky ones where it's like I had a package and the gym that I was working for really sorted it out for the instructors.

And let me tell you, I emailed my therapist so fast. I was like, how soon can you see me? Literally booked a therapy appointment because I was like, okay I don't know, but I think I made the wrong decision and she was absolutely amazing because she was like, okay, like, let's, let's, let's unpack this. Let's talk about this.

And one of the things she said was, well she made me realize like you could, no one could have ever predicted that this was going to happen. And she's like, yes, it's happened, but did it, does it really affect the decision that you made at the end of the day, like she was just trying to bring me back down to reality where she's like, regardless of this happened or not, you're here and you've made the decision and I was like, she's right.

And COVID or no COVID, the decision really would have been the same. And I was like, okay, fair.

[00:10:18] Karlee: Yeah. Yeah, very interesting. Now question for you, because when you... when we were chatting in the pre interview, you talked about like when you had this opportunity to take the package, there was a time where you said, and I'll use a quote, you said, I didn't want to leave, but I didn't want to stay.

And so when you're at that crossroads of decision, if we rewind a little bit to the decision point that helps make you leave. When you are... because I think oftentimes people get to that crossroads, that fork in the road where they're having to make that decision to walk one path or the other. It's so confusing and there's conflicting paradoxical choices in front of them or feelings about those choices.

So what was it within you that made you choose one of those paths and stick to it in your decision making?

[00:11:07] Tiana: Yeah, there was a couple things. And one of the things I try to recommend to people to not do is like focus group their decision and asking a bunch of different people to really validate your decision or make the decision for you.

And I knew that... I knew that I wanted to go, but it's, it's the safety pulling me back of like, but do you really want to go? No, you want to stay. Cause this is safe. You know this. Like it's secure. So, you know, it's always important to have people in your life that, you know can give you very unbiased opinions.

And so one of the things I did was I consulted with my circle to say like, okay, this is what I'm thinking. Let's just talk it through. And these are both people that I really respect and admire. And both of them came back and they were like, you absolutely should do this.

So that was like one side of it. But then the other part is, it's me really making this decision as much as like, they're validating it. So for me, it's like, I really had to sit with, what is it that I want from my life? And, if I had to fast forward a year, two years down the road, would I still want to be in this same position?

And that's what scared me the most. It's like, I absolutely do not want to do that. I don't want to be here a year, two years from now. The same thing, going back in that same circle. Right. Nothing creates more clarity than taking action. So I was like, okay, we're going to do this. And it was taking that leap and going back to the what if, like, what if it doesn't work out?

Because that's what everyone was saying to me, like, well, what if it doesn't work out? And can you really make a living out of this? And it was just like, well, what if it works out better? What if it works out so amazing that you're going to laugh and look back at this time?

And I was like, when I thought about those questions, I was like, yeah, we're just going to do it.

And you learn the art of pivoting as well as an entrepreneur. And it's like, you know what? Hey man, one direction doesn't work. Guess what? You go the other one. So right, didn't work? Go left next time. Yeah, really and truly.

[00:13:24] Karlee: Covid comes up, pivot again.

[00:13:26] Tiana: Oh my God. You pivot endlessly.

[00:13:29] Karlee: Totally.

Another thing we talked about, which I think is so true is the, you were talking about your therapeutic work through becoming an entrepreneur. And you and I both talked about like the spiritual journey of, and the personal development you go through in becoming an entrepreneur. So, talk to me a little bit about that and your experience there.

[00:13:52] Tiana: Yeah. I mean, I said to you no one tells you when you become an entrepreneur that you're going to have to work on so much stuff, like it's kind of crazy. Like, when I left, I was like, okay, we're gonna... we're going to teach classes. We're going to do nutrition. We're going to do all the fun things.

I'm going to help people live their best life. I'm like, Oh, okay. So I need to heal my inner child. Noted. So that I'm not like, I'm like, okay, so I'm not like a raging toddler every time someone says no to me, or every time, like a post doesn't do well, or anytime I'm ignored, right, or like, quote, unquote, rejected.

And I just, I didn't see that coming. And so, doing therapy and then working with other coaches in different modalities, it's like, wow, like so much of the stuff that you've suppressed that you didn't even realize, since you were young, literally just comes exploding to the surface and you're kind of like, okay, I don't know what to do.

How do I handle this? What's going on, because, when I'm reacting to something, it's not the thing or the person per se that I'm reacting to. It's, okay, like, when did you first feel like this? Like, let's actually take this and let's dissect it. And that was a completely different way for me to look at certain things that...

I never thought like a possible because for example, it's like my classes, they're not filling up like everybody else's. And I want to go in the corner and sulk. And I'm feeling all sorts of emotions. And it's like, okay, what is really behind this? Do you actually care that, you have 25 people in your class instead of 30?

What's the big deal? But then when you unpack it, it's like, Oh, no, that's seven year old Tiana who's reacting because she was picked last for a team, and she was feeling like she was left out, and she was feeling like she wasn't one of the quote unquote cool kids. I'm like, oh, that's what it is.

Okay. So it really has nothing to do with me having 25 people and not 30 in this exact moment.

[00:16:12] Karlee: Yeah, that's so fascinating because we can get caught up in the like comparison game, especially as an entrepreneur, when you see like kind of inspiration of where you want to be.

And oftentimes you're looking at this, I call it the forward gap of where you are today and where you want to be, navigating that gap as well. But using those tools.

[00:16:41] Tiana: I mean, you're looking at someone's chapter 62. Versus your chapter four. And comparison in the fitness industry is just, I feel like it's heightened because it's so aesthetic based.

And everyone's posting the best shots and from the best angles and like, all the name brand clothing. And so I feel like the comparison is just so much more heightened in the fitness space that, it's so easy to just get completely sucked into that.

[00:17:17] Karlee: Yeah, absolutely. So tell me a little bit about how you found your different therapeutic modalities that you've worked with from a, I guess, client standpoint, and then how did you arrive to your mindset coaching and how you coach your individuals?

Maybe we'll start with the... what kind of modalities did you explore and talk a little bit about those?

[00:17:40] Tiana: Yeah. So I started in like when I was doing my own therapy with my therapist and it was just, cognitive behavioral therapy. And I lucked out because I only had one therapist. I didn't have to go through different people.

She was absolutely amazing from the beginning. We really hit it off and had an incredible connection. And she was there when I needed her. For what I needed her for, and I knew that at a certain point, it was great, but I was like, I think I just need to dive a little bit deeper. And I couldn't quite put my finger on it at the time and then I started to do a little bit more research and started to learn about the subconscious mind and, reprogramming, and then I realized, okay, that's really kind of where, like, all the magic is, like, that's where you got to get to. And started to follow a couple people online just to learn a little bit more and then decided, you know what, that's something that I want to do a much deeper dive into.

And then went and did a certification in it to learn about the different modalities and the techniques. And it was absolutely incredible because not only was I able to practice these techniques on others, but there are techniques that I easily use on myself.

[00:19:09] Karlee: Yeah, I love that. And talk a little bit about in case somebody hasn't heard about cognitive behavior, behavioral therapy yet, or I know you've talked about some somatic work that you've done if they've just heard about therapy in general, but haven't heard about these specific types and modalities, if you could, from your perspective, describe what each of them do and how you experienced that as a client.

[00:19:34] Tiana: Yeah. Like I, I loved therapy and it's, when you have a good therapist, it can almost become a little bit addictive because it's like you love to talk, and that's really what therapy is. It's very cerebral, and like, it's you're talking, you're talking, you're talking, and that's great. But then there's also an element of like, okay, but like, how do I move out of the cerebral and the talking and like actually being?

Because, we're human beings, not human doings. And that's where the somatic work really comes in because it's more about getting into the body and the feelings and the being, and all of the past experiences and the thoughts and the beliefs and the traumas and all of that really does get stored in the body and you know when we suppress it, that's when it just becomes like more and more and more intense and I mean I do strongly believe in the mind body connection and like, if we're feeling some sort of ailment or some sort of illness, where can we look into our body to see where that originated from?

Right? Like, so we want to go down that rabbit hole, but the somatic work is just, like, all about being in the body and the issues in the tissues. So, like, how can we really deal with that. And so that's when you use, the breath work, the subconscious reprogramming. So it's like working with those neural pathways, the self hypnosis, you know, even just like jumping up and down, moving your body, dancing, like even dancing is a form of somatic movement, right?

Because it's just releasing that energy in the body.

[00:21:20] Karlee: Yes. The issues in the tissue. I've never heard that one before. And I really like that saying.

[00:21:25] Tiana: I can't… Yeah, it's but it's so true. I can't take credit for it. I can't remember who originated that saying, but I know it wasn't me. And when I heard it, I was like, oh, no, that totally makes it makes all the sense.

Yes.

[00:21:36] Karlee: Yes. Somebody was saying, because oftentimes I love to hear what are the like, phrases and sayings that you can say no matter what, that you really don't, understand the deeper meaning of it. And then you hear something like that, but it's like, Oh, when people are like, Oh, I'll just eat my feelings.

Right. It's like, you're actually putting them in your body. Like, where do we think those feelings are going or the suppression of them? They're not just disappearing out of our lives. We're putting them into our tissue. And we, so that's, I love to hear those things where you're like. But you're suppressing it and it's just going in your body and somewhere energetically in here.

[00:22:15] Tiana: And then you'll have digestive issues and wonder why. I mean, that's really it.

[00:22:24] Karlee: Wonderful. And then how did you make your way into coaching? Both as a client and as you know, a coach yourself?

[00:22:35] Tiana: Yeah. So COVID had, a lot of lessons and a lot of like blessings. And I think one of the blessings that came out of it was that, teaching classes, which is what I had left my job to do. I realized, oh, I actually don't want to do this full time.

So like, that was a good thing for me that came out of COVID where I realized, okay, I don't want to do... I love teaching and I love being in community, I don't necessarily want to do it full time and be burnt out. So like running from studio to studio, teaching this class, teaching that class.

So I was like, okay, I knew that. And then I knew that there was like some sort of gap because I could see it in the women who came to the studios and all the conversations that I would have, because people would always comment on my body or something I posted or, like something like in relation to how I present myself and I realized that there was a gap that needed filling, and I thought I've done a lot of trial and error when it comes to my health and my wellness and I feel like I've finally found like a good method or framework for lack of a better word that really works for me and simple things that I do that I can easily help others do to help them.

And I think that's where I was like, okay, then I actually do want to go a little bit deeper with these women and do coaching because it's more than just a program. It's more than a recipe book or a meal plan, because I think that if you know, the average person is pretty good at following instructions.

And if I'm saying like, okay, do 3 sets, 10 squats. They're going to know how to do it and they're going to do it. And if I say, okay, well then have these three eggs and some spinach for breakfast. You're like, cool. Got that. But then there was still like, okay, why am I not where I want to be? Why am I not seeing results?

And that's where the, like that mindset gap came into play where I was like, okay, so let's talk about, your identity and how you see yourself and really like peeling all of those layers back. And that's essentially how I got into coaching.

I mean, it was a long, like a long winded journey to get there, but that's essentially, like, it was basically trial and error with clients, too, where I would see them, stick to a program, but then maybe they just weren't the best in their nutrition.

Man, that's not the right way to say it, but maybe they just lacked some guidance, and I was like, okay, well, I'll help you out. I'll give you a meal plan, and then it's like, okay, I'm doing the meal plan, I'm doing the program, and it's still not working. And then it's like, okay let's unpack it a little bit more.

And then once I did, and the common theme I find with most women is either a lack of boundaries. And or a lack of self worth and those are two things. Yeah, and those are still two things that we need to work on and really kind of dive deep.

[00:25:53] Karlee: Interesting, I'm curious cause I, I would have imagined you, as you were saying the two things I would have thought one of them was like self image and stuff like that.

So talk about, I'm very curious to double click on the lack of boundaries piece of it and the lack of self worth, how did you distill it to those two kind of insights?

[00:26:14] Tiana: It's lots of questioning and when I... I'll do an intake with a client and I always say like our first meeting is like 75 to 90 minutes and I know they're kind of like, what?

And it's, and ironically enough, we never have enough time. They think going into it that that's a lot of time, like actually it's not, but we'll just work with what we have. And 90 minutes, it's, I'm teasing information out, right. And when they're like, oh, I'm just not motivated. I'm like, okay, let's double click on that.

Let's talk about that. And you know, the lack of boundaries is we, women tend to want to do everything. And they, we, a lot of us I would say are people pleasers, myself too, like it's, you just want to make people happy and I wouldn't love if everyone was mad at me but I wouldn't say like I'm like that full on people pleaser, but I definitely aim to make people happy and to feel satisfied and when that comes into play, then you will tend to say yes more.

And maybe not honor your nose or feel guilty when you're like, I can't do it. And then you go into the massive explanation, I can't do it because, or I'll do it like so sorry. And you were like, apologizing. Right. So, it's that, that lack of boundaries where we're just putting everybody's needs ahead of our own.

And we're not even. We're not even prioritizing ourself in any way and then that turns into resentment. So like that just goes down into its own rabbit hole. And the lack of self worth is… we just don't feel that we deserve, that time off, especially moms, because they have that guilt when they're away from their kids.

Right. Like, oh, like they, they feel guilty if they're away from their child, so, you're not feeling that you're deserving of your own time. And even, away from, being away from the household and being away from their spouse and they feel guilty that, like he's going to have to watch the child and it's like, well, that's your partner.

So let's not, let's reframe that. He's not like babysitting, you're co-parenting. Yeah. And you don't know until you actually ask.

[00:28:40] Karlee: Right. Right, right, right. Absolutely. That's neat. I'm thinking about like my own experience with a trainer, which is years, it was pre COVID and I even just think about the benefit when you were talking about okay, we've got like a circuit you can do and here's the exercises.

I, most of the time it's just like I got more benefit maybe even from the therapeutic aspect of it. Like we talked the whole time and I'm sure you on the other receiving end is like, oh, I was fully a therapist for everything.

[00:29:10] Tiana: Oh, I joke about that to like other people and other trainers will get it when I, when we say it. So it's like, we're actually not personal trainers. We're like half personal training and it's half therapy. And I mean, I love to create safe spaces for my clients and, there was one particular time where, she just unloaded in a way that I was like, I wasn't actually ready for that. But I, I held the space for her cause I realized, oh, she really needs to just get this off of her chest. But it really is therapy.

[00:29:47] Karlee: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's similar with, I always say that there's an element of training that's also similar to wealth as well. And the mindset piece of the numbers, you can follow the numbers all you want, but there is a mindset piece that comes along with it and you got to do both together, right?

It's not too much focused on one or the other, but it's looking at the numbers and looking at the mindset piece that'll help move things forward. Cause sometimes you can just get stuck back into that cycle.

[00:30:17] Tiana: Yeah, I think it's honing in on the mindset piece is really, that's really where all of the magic is and what happens after that because... and I only learned this again through trial and error and like the more work that I've done, it's like, okay, well yeah, I'm looking at like all of the tangible stuff, like all of the 3d stuff, but then it's like, what's going on in here?

And what do I actually believe to be true about myself, about the world, about my interactions? What are my perceptions? What are my interpretations? What sort of interpretations am I making? Right? And reframing all of those. Is what helps me be consistently consistent because I was asked that question, like it's not that I don't miss a day, but, I know how I want my life to look.

And I know what, like the type of person that I am. And I know that integrity. And honoring my word to myself are high values for me. So, those take priority and that's where I take my action from. And that has nothing to do with, like, the numbers, the scale, the this and the that. Like, that's completely, like, completely irrelevant.

It's like where are my values? Where do I take action from? And that's where the mindset piece comes in.

[00:31:39] Karlee: Oh, I love that. So what I'm hearing you talk about is also the transition from like therapy to coaching, right? And so, if you could describe the difference between therapy and coaching, how would you describe it?

[00:31:51] Tiana: I think if I'm speaking from personal... I'll speak from personal experience, like when I was doing therapy and you know, there was a lot of good questions that I was, when I would, like, talk about a situation, and, she'd ask me some questions, and, we do a little bit of a deeper dive, and that was helpful, until the next time I was triggered on the exact same thing, and then I was like, okay, now what?

How do we do this? I'm doing the same thing again? Okay. Whereas now in B on the flip side of the work, it's like, okay, when I'm triggered actually taking that pause and it's like the react versus respond, it's like, okay, so am I going to have that knee jerk reaction or I'm going to take that pause and think about my responses and sometimes I'll sit and I'll think, okay, what is it that's really bothering me? Or when have I felt this before?

And then one of the most important questions that I ask is, okay, like, what does 5 year old me need in this moment? Because that's the person who needs soothing and every time I'm triggered, it's just an opportunity to show me where, okay, I just need a little bit more healing or I need just to do a little bit more work in that area.

And when I'm able to... actually, label it as such, or like, realize that, okay, this is, it's five year old Tiana who's acting up for this reason, then when the next time that trigger comes, the reaction just gets, like, taken down a notch, right? Like, it's, if we were at a ten, maybe I'm able to bring that down to a six, and that's still really good.

Because then the next time, then that'll be brought down to, like, a three. Right? And eventually it's like, you're kind of like, it's like water off my back, like a duck, right? Cause water slides off, so, it's just really looking at... asking yourself those types of questions, really, I always say there's gold in that pause.

So really taking that pause to reflect. And that's where I feel like that work differs from therapy, where, you're not just dealing with the actual moment, you're peeling back that moment to find out what's underneath, like, what's the root cause. Whereas like therapy is great in the moment because it'll give you a little bit of a band aid, I think, and make you feel good, and you leave, and you're like, okay, that was a great session. That was awesome. And then the next time it comes up, and maybe you're in between appointments, and you can't get to your therapist, right? So it's like, what do you have in your toolbox for your, for yourself that you can tap into?

And that's I think so important is to equip your toolbox with every tool under the sun so that like, okay, maybe breath work is not going to work right now. Maybe just putting on my favorite song and dancing is going to feel good or maybe screaming into a pillow, like open up that throat chakra, right?

Or like, maybe it's tapping. Maybe it's turning on and self hypnosis, like whatever the case may be. It's like you have that tool that's available to you. And I think that's where that work very much differs from therapy.

[00:35:10] Karlee: Very cool. Okay. So I think this is a good segue because you also just named a lot of different healing techniques, a lot of different tools.

And so, you know you mentioned earlier that even therapy can get addicting, but so can personal growth and healing can also be very addictive when you're like looking for those... like if you have a breakthrough and you feel like you've got this like bliss state, right? And I read a book recently that was talking about bliss junkies that are always searching for that, like blissful state in life and chasing that next bliss.

So in that chasing, you and I have talked about some personal experiences. How do you navigate and what are some of the red flags that have come up along your journey when you found yourself in a space and a program that you didn't feel like was in alignment for you and talk to me a little bit about how you spotted those red flags, how you came to be and what that did for you along your journey of becoming a coach.

[00:36:12] Tiana: Yeah. When I had entered into a coaching program, I was very much at a point where I was kind of like, ohhh, like. I don't know what I want to do. I'm not sure if this was the right decision. And so, my, like, the tools that were accessible to me at that point, it was like, I didn't really have much. And I got presented with this coaching opportunity, like, to join this coaching program.

And I thought, and it said all the right things, right? You know, like, growth, empowerment, it hit all the buzzwords. And... I thought, okay, like this, this can work and joined the program. And, it was that initial hit. I almost think it was like that initial dopamine hit where it was like, this feels great.

And I rode that high for like quite a bit, cause I was in that container for like six months or maybe just over six months. And once it wore off and I was able to like, kind of discern, I'm trying to choose my words carefully here. Kind of like the rose colored glasses were kind of like coming off.

I was like, I don't know if this is the right fit for me anymore. And it was simply the… I felt an energy shift. And there were certain things that were being said and how the information was being presented. And more importantly, I think what I picked up on the most was how the other women in the container were responding to her energy.

And that didn't sit right with me, where some of the questions during our coaching calls were questions that I just thought you can't possibly be wanting to ask someone else, this decision, because you are the only person who has control of your life. And I get that sometimes we look for guidance, but the questions were going from, guidance to like, tell me what to do.

And I thought that was really, that was like so dangerous because here is this person who is spewing all of this information and these women are just kind of like worshiping her for lack of a better word and asking her like what they should do and it's like, I don't actually think she's the person that's equipped to answer that question, like you should, yeah, for you you should probably seek some other way, some other coach or therapist or like something so I started to see like these red flags and I thought like this I don't think this is for me anymore and I pulled myself back and you know I wasn't showing up for any of our coaching calls and I thought okay, well, I only have a couple weeks left in this program.

I was like, you know what we lose a couple weeks, we lose a couple weeks. It's no big deal. And then I got called out for essentially or I should say accused of plagiarizing on social media. And for me integrity and anyone who really knows me like off of social media will know that integrity is one of my top values and if you're going to call that call me out on that, I'm going to take that incredibly personal and I will get defensive and we had a very heated conversation and I, in that moment I turned into, like a 10 year old version of myself who was getting disciplined at school where I was like, okay, like I just need to be quiet. I don't want to get into any more trouble as feisty as a person as I am. I was like, okay, this is what it is.

And at the end of the conversation, one of the things that she said was, I'd appreciate it if we kept this conversation between the two of us and, hindsight is 2020 because after that, like, when I say the issues in the tissues I was starting to experience, like, kind of like an insomniac issues. I just physically was not feeling well. And I think only one friend knew of... like two friends knew what happened and the conversation. And I was very much like, I can't tell anybody because like she may come after me, like she's pretty well known, like I just went through all of these stories in my head, but it also confirmed that I knew I was right about her and the energy.

And it's like, I just, you wish you'd listened to your gut in that moment. And you know, just like, and then I had to work through all of that. And you realize just how dangerous and how toxic the coaching industry can be in terms of preying on vulnerabilities and manipulating situations.

[00:41:26] Karlee: Yeah. Yeah. I was sharing with you as well. I had a similar experience where I was working one on one with a healer at the time for quite a while, almost three years. And one of the red flags for me, especially towards the end was the codependency that was being nurtured, right? Oh, I'm okay if, if you have any hiccups, you can just come back and see me.

Right. I'll fix you up. And then all of a sudden I got one of my favorite quotes that I hold near and dear to me is, a healer is in a healer setting, but I think the same could be applied for coaching as well. A healer is not somebody who heals you. It's healer is somebody who holds space while you heal yourself.

I think that's such an important distinction, whether it's a healing space or a coaching space. As you were talking about in your examples of handing that decision to somebody else. That's actually not empowering, right? So it's actually the opposite of what the program is touting, right?

The I know best kind of idea.

[00:42:37] Tiana: And it's the complete opposite. And I love that quote. And I think also too, for, like a healer or anyone who's going to be in that coaching space. It's one of the things, so I didn't want that to taint my experience of coaching, 'cause I actually do enjoy getting coaching and, being a mentee.

Yeah. And, but now it's, approaching it with more of like, okay, like, what can you do for me? And having that mindset has then helped me go into other coaching packages where I'm like, okay, like I actually feel fully confident going into this. I feel good about my decision and, receiving the tools that I need, because that was the other thing eventually that was starting to become a little bit of a red flag where I was like, I don't know if I'm actually getting the tools that I need to move forward.

And when I looked around the group, there wasn't a lot who were like making these massive leaps during this time. Yeah. And I thought, okay, so I'm definitely not the only one. And. When I finally started to talk to others about it, they started to share similar experiences. Yeah. And it was, again, it was like, I knew it, like, in my head, I was like, I knew I wasn't wrong.

I was wrong. I wasn't wrong. Yeah. There's like trusting that, that gut feeling. Yeah.

[00:44:10] Karlee: Yeah. And there's, there's kind of two other things, like the secrecy is one of the big things as well in this conversation that like can be a red flag. I think toxicity breeds itself in the shadows and the, in the hidden and oftentimes like confidentiality gets preyed on of like your integrity for not sharing and not spreading it widely and, and, and all that stuff, that gets preyed on. Right. And so then you keep something confidential that hurts you in the meantime too. Right. And then the other thing is like, you know, just.... I always tell people to be wary of the salesy aspect of healing and, the money can get conflated in these spaces and you know, working with somebody who's got their own, quite a good hold on their integrity and their... how they do it. And so I was in a, I signed up for a coaching program once that was like, I don't want you to be a, you're either a yes or a no. If it's a not now, like it's not clean. That's not a clean no, just make it a yes or a no.

[00:45:19] Tiana: Oh yeah. That's what that's, that was that person's motto. And I'm like, no, you can.... And so, I'm so glad you said that because that's something else. I mean, because I, again, hindsight is 20/20 where it's like, you're shamed if you want to think about it. Like, I'm sorry. What? Like, that's absurd.

[00:45:44] Karlee: I know they use the it's either a hell yeah or a hell no. And then it's like.

But sometimes it's not that clear.

[00:45:51] Tiana: And that's okay. Like, listen, I'm all about the full body. Yes. Right. I am. But there's certain things where you're like, you will need to just kind of take in like, Oh, let me take that back. But it was like that pressure tactic in the moment. And that's a massive red flag.

And if you're going to be coming into my DM and like, essentially shaming me that I'm not continuing my growth. So I'm quote unquote, like, I'm not prioritizing it and I'm on the edge and like saying all these things. No, that's a red, that is such a red flag.

[00:46:26] Karlee: Yeah. And I think people find the people they need, like when they need them to move on in that path.

And I think a lot of coaches, healers, I mean, even as a financial advisor, like in, in any traditional sales, they actually teach you a no is never a no. It's always a not now, or it can always be a not now. Right. And sometimes it is a no. And then sometimes from a salesy perspective, you're like, no, it's just a no.

That's a whole other aside. Yeah. But yeah, that concept of that framing. Like in hindsight, when you think about it, it's like, sometimes you meet somebody and it's just not the right time, but it's going to be the right time to work together a year or two from now and leaving that space open, I think is healthy.

[00:47:08] Tiana: You know, and it's funny because even in that program, like, that's exactly how she taught where it's like, no is not a no and it's like either yes or no.

And the whole like, well, then yeah. What would you do if, like, where would you be if you didn't make this decision today? And, okay, I get all of that. And then I'm now in different coaching containers, and I'm just grateful because the approach is very different. And a no can be a no, but to your point, like, maybe it's just, it's a not right now.

And I'm like, I am so cool with that. Yeah. Because I do, I firmly believe that the clients who want to work with me will find me. And I, if I have to drag you into working with me, I'm gonna have to drag you every step of the way. And guess what? That's not fun for either of us. And I don't want to do that.

Like I have zero interest in doing that. Yeah. So it's just… that's kind of like shifting more into that feminine energy of like, okay, you know what, we're just going to release. And I'm still going to do the work. And I'm still going to take action to call in those clients. But at the same time, I'm not going to be into in DMs and, cold messaging people or, is it a yes, like today, it's only today, like, it's not in me to do that.

[00:48:29] Karlee: Yeah, I hear you on that. So, yeah, I always just say, check into those red flags. The other tactic I always gave for myself, cause it's very, people are very good in the coaching industry or sales industry in general about. The tactics, the language, the time pressure and that kind of thing.

And I always tell people like, it's okay. I have a rule for myself. Never say yes on the spot, even if I want to. And I like know intuitively that it is a yes or a full body yes for me, if I give myself that pause, you were talking about that pause earlier that it comes back to, if I give myself that pause to take a moment to think about it, I can then get away from the high of whatever energy I'm in or the excitement that I'm in to make a different decision, if that's the case. And if I'm still just as excited, then yeah, that's a pretty quick, yes. And a pretty quick turnaround, but allowing yourself that pause to say. Allow me to think about it.

You have those tools that you can then verbally say, because every time I get sucked into saying a, I say sucked into, but every time I fall into the, Oh yeah, yeah yeah. And then you go into it right after I'm like, uh, uh, did it... shoot! Did it happen again?

[00:49:39] Tiana: Yeah, I didn't mean to, but that's such a good point because you can be saying that yes from two very different positions.

You could be saying yes when you're in that low where you're like, I absolutely just need this. Cause it's like, it's a little bit of desperation and then you're saying that yes, cause it's like you're high and you're like, yes, I want to keep riding this. And then, then when it wears off, you're like, Oh, actually I didn't.

Oops, right? My bad. But so taking that pause will help you even out a little bit and really make the decision that's going to be best for you in that moment. And it's okay to say no. Yes.

[00:50:19] Karlee: And that just comes back to everything you've been saying around, like, know yourself, make the decision for yourself from a centered place.

Use the outside tools as a guidance, but not as the final, final call. So, yeah.

[00:50:33] Tiana: Because only as much advice or that I can give, like only, you know, you, so when people are like, tell me what I should do, I'm like, I can't tell you, what to do because I'm not you and how I would handle that situation is probably different than how you would handle that situation.

So let's just unpack the story that maybe you have around that or the belief that you have around that instead, to see where that could take you because I like I can't tell you yes or no. Or like what to do, I'm not you, only you are you.

[00:51:14] Karlee: Well, I think that's a good spot. I always like to kind of start wrapping up the episode with some stories of synchronicity.

So is there a story of synchronicity that's on your mind today?

[00:51:27] Tiana: I know I was thinking about this because you had you had told me, I think for me, I recently had spent six months away from Canada and I kind of upped and left. Like not a lot of people knew I was moving until I was actually there.

I was like, hi, guess what I did… And I feel like being there, there were so many synchronicities. It's, it's, it's one of those things where I'm like, it's so hard to put into words. I'm going to try my best, but you know, it's certain, it was like sunrises and even rain falling or a lot of them just involved nature and just being in those elements where everything just felt like, oh yeah, this is it.

This feels good. This is it. Like it's just, I kept saying like, oh yeah, this is it. This is it. Over and over again. So I think that experience and being there just in itself was like one massive synchronicity for me.

[00:52:36] Karlee: Yeah. I love that. Oh, I love that. I love those like nature moments too, where you're like, you can just stop and appreciate and dance in the rain or whatever, whatever was fun.

[00:52:47] Tiana: Yeah. Or just, for one of them in particular was sitting, like sitting on the beach and watching the sunset. And I swear, it's like you would just look and you just felt source, source, God, universe, whatever you want to call it. And it was just like, like that feeling in your body was just absolutely incredible.

[00:53:08] Karlee: I thought that, thank you for sharing. My story of synchronicity is actually, I mean, you and I met at Alicia and Sabrina's events last year, and I have followed you on Instagram since then, and we haven't reconnected. And then I saw you do a whole post about leaving room for the magic and having that be some advice you received lately, and I had no idea what we were going to talk about.

But I reached out. I was like, Tiana, come be a guest on my show. I feel like we've got stuff to talk about. And so just to be here with you and thank you for saying yes, right away. And thank you, speaking of saying yes right away.

[00:53:48] Tiana: Yes, you did, which I appreciate it.

[00:53:50] Karlee: No, but I I loved our conversation when we connected and this one as well. So thank you for being here.

[00:53:57] Tiana: Oh thank you so much for having me. This was so fun. I mean, I loved our pre chat. I love this chat as well.

[00:54:03] Karlee: Likewise. Likewise. We're going to walk away and have the cheeks hurt.

[00:54:06] Tiana: I know. I know. Just spent an hour just like this.

[00:54:11] Karlee: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Wonderful. And if our audience wants to keep in touch with you, learn more about the work that you do, how can they get in touch with you and learn?

[00:54:21] Tiana: Yeah, I'm pretty active on Instagram. So it's at Tiana Pillari on Instagram and anything program related or like my services or offers you can find at tianapollari.com.

[00:54:36] Karlee: And we'll have those links in the show notes for everybody. So Tiana, thank you for joining me today. And to everybody who's listening, thank you for staying with us.

We appreciate it. And I hope you all have a great magical week after this. Thanks, Tiana.

[00:54:51] Tiana: Thank you.

[00:54:52] Karlee: Bye.

‍